Various Perspectives on My New Understanding of My Civil Rights
Call the ALCU for what? You broke the law by having your feet up on the seats. This happened to me to, not arrested because I had ID, but ticketed. Follow the logic. You pay for one fair; you’re entitled to one seat. By having you feet up on another seat you’re taking up two spots. Yes it was 4am when it happened to me and no one was on the train, so there was room for others. Elizabeth, I hate to tell you, you admit taking up more than one seat, so you don’t have a leg to stand on, No pun intended. There is a way to get around this mess in the future, swipe your card twice and pay for two fairs. I do this now when I travel early in the morning, and when a cop tries to give me a ticket I tell them I paid for two fairs. Of course they don’t believe you can try to confirm this to prove you wrong and write it in the ticket to add evidence to your mister meaner, but I love the look on their faces when you prove your claim. So Elizabeth, you would have gotten a ticket, which you could have fought, and gotten off if it was your first offence, but you added to the problems by not having ID, and if you commit a crime, even one this small, you spend the night in jail till they can confirm who you are. Welcome to the big city sister.
Posted by: criminal minded May 20, 2005 02:27 PM
"criminal minded"- It's not necessary to take a person into custody for what is otherwise a summonsable offense. Not only is this a violation of her rights, it's waste of your and my tax dollars.
Posted by: thfs May 20, 2005 02:52 PM
I would also recommend you try contacting the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB) - you can see more at http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html
Posted by: Jason May 20, 2005 05:29 PM
"criminal minded"-said:"You pay for one fair; you’re entitled to one seat"Criminally insane is more like it -First of all the word you probably wanted is "fare" not "fair", but following the logic of "You pay for one fare; you’re entitled to one seat" raises the following questionsCan I get my money back when I don't get a seat during rush hour?If the train is crowded and there are parts of two "seats under my "seat" am I a criminal?What about the times that there isn't any room for my knees and I have to sit at an angle?Is it legal for fat people to ride the subway?Where does my "seat" stop and my leg begin in the opinion of the NYPD, and are the standards implemented in a way that does not discriminate against short or tall people?
Interestingly enough, The MTA wants to clarify that in it's rules of conduct, because even they seem to think that the rules are confusingOld ( current) rules are here http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htmNew proposed rules are here http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/nyct.htmSection 1050.7 (j) (1) is nowOccupy more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance; lie on the floor, platform, stairway, landing or conveyance; or block free movement on a station, stairway, platform or conveyance; or (k) commit any act which causes or may tend to cause harm to oneself or to any other person including, but not limited to:(1) riding a bicycle or straddling a bicycle while it is in motion, or riding a scooter, [skateboard, roller skates, in-line skates] or any other self-propelled vehicle or any motor-propelled vehicle;(2) wearing roller skates or in-line skates; or(3) riding or otherwise standing on a skateboard.
The proposed new version reads
(1) occupy more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance when to do so would interfere or tend to interfere with the operation of the authority's transit system or the comfort of other passengers; (2) place his or her foot on a seat on a station, platform or conveyance; (3) lie on the floor, platform, stairway, landing or conveyance; or (4) block free movement on a station, stairway, platform or conveyance; or (k) commit any act which causes or may tend to cause harm to oneself or to any other person including, but not limited to: (1) riding a bicycle or straddling a bicycle while it is in motion, or riding a scooter, [skateboard, roller skates, in-line skates] or any other self-propelled vehicle or any motor-propelled vehicle;(2) wearing roller skates or in-line skates; or (3) riding or otherwise standing on a skateboard.
Note the addition of "when to do so would interfere or tend to interfere with the operation of the authority's transit system or the comfort of other passengers;" to the prohibition on occupying more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance.
So it would seem that even the MTA thinks the rule is stupid
As for the "Finally, all she could do was fall asleep in the fetal position in the holding area with her arm chained to a gate. " I read in the newspaper today that "Chaining prisoners to any fixed object was also banned" by the US Army in Afghanistan. If you Google "chaining prisoners" it seems to mostly turn up stories about human rights violations and torture
For instance The US State Department in it's report on Libya http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41727.htm in the section "Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" states "The reported methods of torture included: chaining prisoners to a wall for hours; clubbing; applying electric shock; applying corkscrews to the back; pouring lemon juice in open wounds; breaking fingers and allowing the joints to heal without medical care; suffocating with plastic bags; deprivation of food and water; hanging by the wrists; suspension from a pole inserted between the knees and elbows; cigarettes burns; threats of being attacked by dogs; and beating on the soles of the feet."
So there you have it, the US state department puts "chaining prisoners" as the very first item on a pretty appalling list of Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
Posted by: hhc May 20, 2005 08:06 PM
"She got to see what it felt like to be a person of color"
Give me a break. I take the F-Train every day and night (Park Slope to Broadway/Lafayette, coincidently enough), and I don't see 'people of color' being dragged off by the police, nor should I.
"a homeless person"
Considering most of the city's homeless are mentally ill or drunks, they *should* be dragged off (especially on the F). It's in their best interest to be placed in a setting where they'll get a hot meal and a bed, and away from the train where they take up half the car with their feces-induced stench.
"an illegal alien"
Is just that...illegal, meaning they broke the law. Entirely different than a law-abiding citizen being unfairly and outrageously incarcerated, which is what happened here. I would advise your friend to contact a lawyer. What happened to her should never happen to anyone, and if it takes a lawsuit to make that happen, then so be it. But regardless, don't let this one stand. Someone needs to be held accountable, and the transit cop in question needs some time off and a re-orientation on the US Constitution.
Posted by: Brian May 21, 2005 12:34 AM
Posted by: criminal minded May 20, 2005 02:27 PM
"criminal minded"- It's not necessary to take a person into custody for what is otherwise a summonsable offense. Not only is this a violation of her rights, it's waste of your and my tax dollars.
Posted by: thfs May 20, 2005 02:52 PM
I would also recommend you try contacting the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board (CCRB) - you can see more at http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/home.html
Posted by: Jason May 20, 2005 05:29 PM
"criminal minded"-said:"You pay for one fair; you’re entitled to one seat"Criminally insane is more like it -First of all the word you probably wanted is "fare" not "fair", but following the logic of "You pay for one fare; you’re entitled to one seat" raises the following questionsCan I get my money back when I don't get a seat during rush hour?If the train is crowded and there are parts of two "seats under my "seat" am I a criminal?What about the times that there isn't any room for my knees and I have to sit at an angle?Is it legal for fat people to ride the subway?Where does my "seat" stop and my leg begin in the opinion of the NYPD, and are the standards implemented in a way that does not discriminate against short or tall people?
Interestingly enough, The MTA wants to clarify that in it's rules of conduct, because even they seem to think that the rules are confusingOld ( current) rules are here http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htmNew proposed rules are here http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/nyct.htmSection 1050.7 (j) (1) is nowOccupy more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance; lie on the floor, platform, stairway, landing or conveyance; or block free movement on a station, stairway, platform or conveyance; or (k) commit any act which causes or may tend to cause harm to oneself or to any other person including, but not limited to:(1) riding a bicycle or straddling a bicycle while it is in motion, or riding a scooter, [skateboard, roller skates, in-line skates] or any other self-propelled vehicle or any motor-propelled vehicle;(2) wearing roller skates or in-line skates; or(3) riding or otherwise standing on a skateboard.
The proposed new version reads
(1) occupy more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance when to do so would interfere or tend to interfere with the operation of the authority's transit system or the comfort of other passengers; (2) place his or her foot on a seat on a station, platform or conveyance; (3) lie on the floor, platform, stairway, landing or conveyance; or (4) block free movement on a station, stairway, platform or conveyance; or (k) commit any act which causes or may tend to cause harm to oneself or to any other person including, but not limited to: (1) riding a bicycle or straddling a bicycle while it is in motion, or riding a scooter, [skateboard, roller skates, in-line skates] or any other self-propelled vehicle or any motor-propelled vehicle;(2) wearing roller skates or in-line skates; or (3) riding or otherwise standing on a skateboard.
Note the addition of "when to do so would interfere or tend to interfere with the operation of the authority's transit system or the comfort of other passengers;" to the prohibition on occupying more than one seat on a station, platform or conveyance.
So it would seem that even the MTA thinks the rule is stupid
As for the "Finally, all she could do was fall asleep in the fetal position in the holding area with her arm chained to a gate. " I read in the newspaper today that "Chaining prisoners to any fixed object was also banned" by the US Army in Afghanistan. If you Google "chaining prisoners" it seems to mostly turn up stories about human rights violations and torture
For instance The US State Department in it's report on Libya http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41727.htm in the section "Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment" states "The reported methods of torture included: chaining prisoners to a wall for hours; clubbing; applying electric shock; applying corkscrews to the back; pouring lemon juice in open wounds; breaking fingers and allowing the joints to heal without medical care; suffocating with plastic bags; deprivation of food and water; hanging by the wrists; suspension from a pole inserted between the knees and elbows; cigarettes burns; threats of being attacked by dogs; and beating on the soles of the feet."
So there you have it, the US state department puts "chaining prisoners" as the very first item on a pretty appalling list of Torture and Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.
Posted by: hhc May 20, 2005 08:06 PM
"She got to see what it felt like to be a person of color"
Give me a break. I take the F-Train every day and night (Park Slope to Broadway/Lafayette, coincidently enough), and I don't see 'people of color' being dragged off by the police, nor should I.
"a homeless person"
Considering most of the city's homeless are mentally ill or drunks, they *should* be dragged off (especially on the F). It's in their best interest to be placed in a setting where they'll get a hot meal and a bed, and away from the train where they take up half the car with their feces-induced stench.
"an illegal alien"
Is just that...illegal, meaning they broke the law. Entirely different than a law-abiding citizen being unfairly and outrageously incarcerated, which is what happened here. I would advise your friend to contact a lawyer. What happened to her should never happen to anyone, and if it takes a lawsuit to make that happen, then so be it. But regardless, don't let this one stand. Someone needs to be held accountable, and the transit cop in question needs some time off and a re-orientation on the US Constitution.
Posted by: Brian May 21, 2005 12:34 AM
posted by Pongo at 12:07 PM
0 Comments:
Post a Comment
<< Home